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Did EM2WL for a while..them
03-23-2015, 09:38 AM
Post: #1
Shocked Did EM2WL for a while..them
Hey guys, need a little direction.

Back in August, I posted about losing weight and gaining muscle. I was one of those who did mindless cardio all the time!

I was doing a mix of p90x and bodypump 3-4x a week, along with hiit and some sprints 3x a week. My muscles loved me and I saw some great improvement. My TDEE was and still is 2192. I was eating around that amount through the holidays.

I slowly began to add back in more cardio. I did my 10% cut - so now I'm at 1973 TDEE (to lose some bodyfat). My weight is stable, but my fat % went from 21% to 24% by January. How is that possible?

So, I realized I should probably increase the cardio a little bit. I now do:
M Bodypump with a 4m run
T HIIT class and sprints
W GRIT (HIIT class) 15m swim 20m bike
R Bodypump with 45m walk
F Bodypump with 45m walk
Sa 5 mile run
Sun - 60 minute leisurely walk

I'm just unsure what I need to be doing to get more muscle tone in my arms and drop that fat %. It's extremely frustrating.

Thanks!

Lindsey
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03-23-2015, 10:31 AM (This post was last modified: 03-23-2015 10:32 AM by AnitraSoto.)
Post: #2
RE: Did EM2WL for a while..them
Although I have never done Body Pump, my understanding is that it is a combination of both strength training and cardio, focusing on muscle endurance with lower weights and high reps. Although this is strength training, it is different from the lower rep/higher weight programs like StrongLifts and NROWLFW.

To me, it really seems like you still may be doing too much cardio. The body can react very negatively to all that stress and the result can be weight gain or plateauing.

Since this seems to be what may be happening, I would maybe back off on at least some of that cardio and see how your body responds.

Did you use Scooby to figure your TDEE, or do you have an on-body device like a FitBit? That TDEE just seems really low for all of that activity (unless you are really small...)

Anitra Soto
Team EM2WL
ISSA Certified Fitness Trainer
ISSA Certified Specialist in Senior Fitness

My EM2WL Journey: http://eatmore2weighless.com/never-too-old-anitra/
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03-23-2015, 10:59 AM
Post: #3
RE: Did EM2WL for a while..them
First, I agree with Anitra.

Second, in line with Anitra's advice, definitely get on a heavy lifting program. You will not bulk up, you can ignore all the "million reps with light weights" advice. Muscles get bigger or smaller, that's it, so "toning" is simply growing the muscle and shrinking the fat layer on top.

Third, how were you measuring BF%? Anything other than a bodpod or dexascan is probably going to be inaccurate... I have a handheld, and I do think its useful to track trends, BUT so much affects that reading. I can take a reading over the course of a couple hours and depending on bathroom, exercise, hydration, food, within that timeframe, the number will fluctuate wildly. So measurements and the mirror are better guides.
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03-23-2015, 11:06 AM
Post: #4
RE: Did EM2WL for a while..them
Hey hey!! Just came to second Anitra ^^ bodypump is just muscle endurance, you need stronger/bigger muscles to actually burn more fat. You can also do bodyweight strength training though happy

Your TDEE definitely seems way too small for the amount of cardio exercises you do.

And also like Anitra said... you're probably just doing too much cardio to actually gain lean body mass and lose body fat. You know I started running a few weeks ago and I felt that in my muscles. I felt them struggling with strength exercises or even normal stuff. DOMS would strike me for longer as well. Cardio is healthy and can/should be used with strength training activities but.... to an extent. Too much will just make you lose lean body mass to sustain your activities instead of body fat.

If you want to maintain all that... maybe some kind of supplement like BCAAs?
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03-23-2015, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 03-23-2015 12:22 PM by Linakekei.)
Post: #5
RE: Did EM2WL for a while..them
So my TDEE using scooby says 2192 for 3-5 hours of exercise per week. Should I bump that 5-6 hours of strenuous exercise?

When I change that, my TDEE jumps to 2400 and for weight loss its 2196.

Options?

(03-23-2015 10:31 AM)AnitraSoto Wrote:  Although I have never done Body Pump, my understanding is that it is a combination of both strength training and cardio, focusing on muscle endurance with lower weights and high reps. Although this is strength training, it is different from the lower rep/higher weight programs like StrongLifts and NROWLFW.

To me, it really seems like you still may be doing too much cardio. The body can react very negatively to all that stress and the result can be weight gain or plateauing.

Since this seems to be what may be happening, I would maybe back off on at least some of that cardio and see how your body responds.

Did you use Scooby to figure your TDEE, or do you have an on-body device like a FitBit? That TDEE just seems really low for all of that activity (unless you are really small...)

So bodypump isn't hard enough?? What do you suggest?

(03-23-2015 11:06 AM)Nadoriel Wrote:  Hey hey!! Just came to second Anitra ^^ bodypump is just muscle endurance, you need stronger/bigger muscles to actually burn more fat. You can also do bodyweight strength training though happy

Your TDEE definitely seems way too small for the amount of cardio exercises you do.

And also like Anitra said... you're probably just doing too much cardio to actually gain lean body mass and lose body fat. You know I started running a few weeks ago and I felt that in my muscles. I felt them struggling with strength exercises or even normal stuff. DOMS would strike me for longer as well. Cardio is healthy and can/should be used with strength training activities but.... to an extent. Too much will just make you lose lean body mass to sustain your activities instead of body fat.

If you want to maintain all that... maybe some kind of supplement like BCAAs?
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03-23-2015, 05:29 PM (This post was last modified: 03-23-2015 05:30 PM by Nadoriel.)
Post: #6
RE: Did EM2WL for a while..them
A TDEE of 2400 sounds a lot more reasonable. Why don't you take a while to figure out your TDEE?

It's not that bodypump is not hard enough... I believe it's hard.. it's just a cardio/endurance type of sport and not strength training. Completely different things ^^ but it obviously depends on your goals: there are people that prefer and mainly do cardio. There's nothing wrong with that, it's still healthy if done properly and with a good diet (which I still believe you probably don't have to be losing lean body mass like that). https://ahealthyparadigm.wordpress.com/2...endurance/

Pure strength training is just... I dunno. Most of us here like it ^^ who doesn't want to get stronger and be able to do things you couldn't before? I wanna be able to survive a zombie apocalypse or something ahah. Being strong has helped me in my job as a nurse. Oh in so many ways... Anyway, most of us probably like the aesthetics of bigger muscles under a thin layer of fat. Hence we do strength training. It's your choice.

Btw, BCAAs should help preserve your lean body mass.
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03-23-2015, 08:35 PM
Post: #7
RE: Did EM2WL for a while..them
Yea, that TDEE of 2400 sounds a lot more reasonable for the amount of activity that you do. Like Nadoriel suggested, I would take some time to try to figure out your TDEE. Gradually increase your calories up closer to that level. Continue increasing slowly until you start to see slow, steady gains that do not stabilize over time (unlike those bigger overnight fluctuations that often occur immediately following an increase...) Take the time to do that now, and you will be more certain of what your intake should ultimately be. Takes a lot of the questioning out of the process.

I still believe, however that you could very easily cut out a lot of that cardio (unless you truly enjoy it all) and your body may react more favorably. All of that activity really puts a lot of stress on the body.

As far as what is heavy lifting? It's not that Body Pump isn't hard - I am sure it is quite difficult, but I believe it is more focused on muscle endurance with lower weights and high reps. Whereas a true heavy lifting program would most likely be periodized, where the program starts with a 4 week endurance phase, transitions to a 4 week hypertrophy phase, and finally a 4 week strength phase. Each phase gradually moves you from higher reps (12 - 15) with lighter weights to lower reps (6 - 8) and heavier weights. EM2WL has a great e-book available, complete with a 12 week Strength Training program that answers so many of the questions that people have on this topic:

http://training.eatmore2weighless.com/be...g-instant/

Take a look at the video Kiki has on that link and see what all is covered and included in the book.

Anitra Soto
Team EM2WL
ISSA Certified Fitness Trainer
ISSA Certified Specialist in Senior Fitness

My EM2WL Journey: http://eatmore2weighless.com/never-too-old-anitra/
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03-24-2015, 07:46 AM
Post: #8
RE: Did EM2WL for a while..them
Thanks for the insight. When I did this the first time I didn't gain too much...and I can see why. So by increasing me TDEE a bit, that'll help fuel and feed my muscles?

What's BCAA?

(03-23-2015 05:29 PM)Nadoriel Wrote:  A TDEE of 2400 sounds a lot more reasonable. Why don't you take a while to figure out your TDEE?

It's not that bodypump is not hard enough... I believe it's hard.. it's just a cardio/endurance type of sport and not strength training. Completely different things ^^ but it obviously depends on your goals: there are people that prefer and mainly do cardio. There's nothing wrong with that, it's still healthy if done properly and with a good diet (which I still believe you probably don't have to be losing lean body mass like that). https://ahealthyparadigm.wordpress.com/2...endurance/

Pure strength training is just... I dunno. Most of us here like it ^^ who doesn't want to get stronger and be able to do things you couldn't before? I wanna be able to survive a zombie apocalypse or something ahah. Being strong has helped me in my job as a nurse. Oh in so many ways... Anyway, most of us probably like the aesthetics of bigger muscles under a thin layer of fat. Hence we do strength training. It's your choice.

Btw, BCAAs should help preserve your lean body mass.
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03-24-2015, 08:13 AM
Post: #9
RE: Did EM2WL for a while..them
Thanks Anita.

I just tried a new option...so I'm going to see how that pans out over the next month. I don't want to change too many variables at once. I'd like to hone in on what is causing the change. I have seen great results from bodypump...the definition is there except my arms. Sad

I'll work on a new plan in April and probably write you then.

Appreciate it!


(03-23-2015 08:35 PM)AnitraSoto Wrote:  Yea, that TDEE of 2400 sounds a lot more reasonable for the amount of activity that you do. Like Nadoriel suggested, I would take some time to try to figure out your TDEE. Gradually increase your calories up closer to that level. Continue increasing slowly until you start to see slow, steady gains that do not stabilize over time (unlike those bigger overnight fluctuations that often occur immediately following an increase...) Take the time to do that now, and you will be more certain of what your intake should ultimately be. Takes a lot of the questioning out of the process.

I still believe, however that you could very easily cut out a lot of that cardio (unless you truly enjoy it all) and your body may react more favorably. All of that activity really puts a lot of stress on the body.

As far as what is heavy lifting? It's not that Body Pump isn't hard - I am sure it is quite difficult, but I believe it is more focused on muscle endurance with lower weights and high reps. Whereas a true heavy lifting program would most likely be periodized, where the program starts with a 4 week endurance phase, transitions to a 4 week hypertrophy phase, and finally a 4 week strength phase. Each phase gradually moves you from higher reps (12 - 15) with lighter weights to lower reps (6 - 8) and heavier weights. EM2WL has a great e-book available, complete with a 12 week Strength Training program that answers so many of the questions that people have on this topic:

http://training.eatmore2weighless.com/be...g-instant/

Take a look at the video Kiki has on that link and see what all is covered and included in the book.
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03-24-2015, 06:38 PM
Post: #10
RE: Did EM2WL for a while..them
BCAA is a supplement really. I started looking into it after I started running for around 45min every day off. I started noticing some muscle loss, or at least no improvement on lifting. I only took it for the last 2d but I noticed I recuperate from the runs a lot faster, I've got more energy during runs and I don't get that ammonia smell after I finishing it. I've also managed be okay with my last strength training workout. Anyway this supplement technically should help retain the muscles during physical activity, get rid of fat faster and lots of other stuff. Worth reading some articles about it.

You read about this I'm sure. Our bodies hate when we do a cut. It's anti natural, hence the bigger the cut the more your body will rebel against you. Eating more will always make your body happier to comply with your needs. In any case I'm not saying for you to increase your TDEE, I'm saying you should get some time figuring what's your real TDEE. Then you can do a cut from there. The smaller the cut the less chances you have of burning your precious lean body mass. If you don't know your true TDEE you take the chance of doing a bigger cut than you think and burn fat+lean body mass.
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